Category: Animal House
Hello, all! In the GEB thread on this same board, I recently said I am considering getting a guide dog. However, I wanted to expand the talk beyond that thread.
I am considering GEB, but have by no means made a final choice. So, here's my question. To those of you who have guide dogs, which school did you attend, and why? What did you like about them? What did you not like about them? Would you go back to that same school again, or no?
I'm curious to hear from folks who have gone to any of the schools, not just a certain one. So, any feedback would be highly appreciated!
I attended southeastern guide dogs in Florida for both my dogs even though my first one didn't work out. I live in asmall town considred rural mostly sidewalkless. Its not easy traveling. SEgGDI works a lot in rural environments. I didn't want to spend 3 weeks in city type work and one that was like home and SEGDI was a great fit with only 3 days of city work. The routes were a bit to short for my liking, but they fit everything in that needed covering. If I could change one thing I would have them teach with more positive reinforcement such as treats and not just verbal praise.
Nine and a half years ago, I went to Pilot Dogs, in Columbus, Ohio, and got my first guide dog. We're still working together to this day. At the time, I was very happy with the school. The trainers and staff that were there at the time, were very nice and helpful. However, since then, I have heard some terrible things about Pilot. There are people who hate it, and talk terribly about it, but there are still some who say that it's still a good school. Personally, I wouldn't know. I haven't been there since nine and a half years ago. So, I can't really say whether or not I'd go back. If the school has changed so much, with new trainers and staff who are terrible, and it's just overall, as bad as some say, then I'm not sure I'd go back. But, if that stuff isnt' true, and it's still a good school, then I'd definitely go back. I know that there are some people out there who have bad experiences with a particular school, and it's over after that. There's no going back to the school, and everything that is said about it, is, "That's a terrible school. don't ever go there. I hated it." I was thrilled to get my guide dog, and I got very lucky. I've seen people come out of other schools, with terrible dogs, so even if Pilot doesn't have a wonderful reputation, it's not the only school out there who has given out bad dogs. Believe me, I can tell you some terrible stories about friends I have, who have gotten guide dogs from different schools. I truly believe that all schools have both good and bad. Like I said, I got lucky. I have an extremely intelligent and wonderful dog. It's so hard to decide on which school you're going to attend. Everyone has their opinions about multiple schools. Just be sure to do your research thoroughly and carefully.
Hi! Thanks for the posts, guys. I had hoped this would get a little more reaction, as I know quite a few Zoners have guide dogs, and am curious. Wonder if I should have just continued the GEB thread that already existed?
Leanne, I'm glad to hear someone post a positive experience about Pilot Dogs. I live in Columbus and hear a lot of negative comments. But frankly, many of the people I have met with dogs from pilot are not exactly the smartest people in the world, and I wonder if that is why things don't work out. I've also seen not so bright people and bad dog handlers with dogs from other schools. If you have lousy mobility skills, don't know you're right from your left, can't figure out which end to put the harness on (yes, I've seen this happen), then you don't deserve a dog.
I am going to southeastern, and can't wait. I have heard good and bad about most schools, I have 2 friends with dogs from guiding eyes, and 2 former teachers with dogs from leader and a former RSB counselor with one from there as well, and I just remembered another former RSB counselor that has one from Southeastern
I am going to gdd this summer. I'm very excited.
Becky, I agree. I have seen some people who dont' seem to know what the hell they're doing, and it makes me wonder why they were given a dog in the first place. If I do see someone with a bad dog, I definitely don't just blame it on the school. The people who receive the dogs play a huge part in how the dogs work, behave, etc. I know some people who have just let their dogs slip away. It's really a shame. I'll admit, sometimes, I do get offended when I hear negative things about Pilot, but that's only because I know what kind of dog I got from there, and he's great. I'm always getting complimented on how well we work together, and people are always talking about what a wonderful dog he is, and how well behaved he is. Dont' get me wrong, though. I'm definitely not sayign that Pilot is perfect. I've even known someone who went there, but the first dog didn't work out. However, she tried again, and ended up with a good dog. I've also known someone who went there, and it didn't work out at all. I said it before, and I'll say it again. There's both good and bad, no matter what school you go to. And, like Becky said, a lot of it depends on the person who gets the dog, not just the school.
In february of 06 I went to GDB at the San Rafael campus. I won't go back. I hated it . The instructors were rude, and I didn't like it at all. Plus most of the people in my class were partials. They could see well enough to read street signs when they dropped us off and made us find our own way back to the lounge. Didn't think that was fair. But since the majority of them could see, the instructors didn't want to do things for the totals. Like show us how to do something. They forgot about me on routes, and then they would get pissed at me because I didn't jump up and down andsay I'm here! But, i figure that's there job to know I'm there. Just because I don't talk much doesn't mean they can just forget about me. Even on dog day, feeding time I went down to the doggy kitchen and got the food from one of the instructors. She told me to go to my room and wait, someone would be down there to show me how much water to add and what to do and everything. So I waited forever! Finally the bitchiest instructor came to my room and jumped my ass and told me I was late and I should have already fed my dog. They had just told me to wait for someone to come show me how? grrr. My dog. He was ok for the first couple of weeks. He always looked back at me and made sure I was doing ok and stuff. Then he started barking, then started missing steps and curbs, then just not listening at all. I talked to the instructors about this. they told me it would get better when I got home. Also I live in a town where they have never heard of sidewalks. All I did in San Rafael was city work. We did one country route and that was just a strait shot down a road. My dog totally bombed out on it. Couldn't stay on the edge of the road or anything. So I talked to the supervisor and told him I couldn't have that. Because all of the work in my area was sidewalkless. He told me that since we'd be doing it every day, dog would become a pro at it. That never happened. I got home, dog walked in the middle of the street, messed up my orientation, and would just sit down in the middle of the street and quit. Instructor came out and was like " oh, no big deal, he's just confused. give him a pep rally." I did, it didn't work. He still quit. He quit on me one night in the middle of an alli, I didn't want to be in the alli, that is just where he pulled me and I figured he knew best. Then he sat down and quit. Barking in restaurants and not even stopping for a flight of steps, and all that. I couldn't handle it. I had to send him back. I got accepted to the seeing eye now. I am going to go there, it just won't be for a while because they don't want me to come while I'm pregnant and risk falling and hurting the baby. But I'll never go back to GDB. And it's not just my dog, I've talked to many people in the past year that got their dogs either in 05 or 06 and had to send them back because the dog couldnt' handle traffic, just decided not to work, or was too sick, or something crazy. I have a friend that went through 3 dogs in 06 from GDB. That's bad. So I'll try the eye. If that one doesn't work for me I guess I'll stick with my cane but I think seeing eye will work. Hope this story wasn't too long and helps you.
I went to The Seeing Eye in the summer of '06. I chose it because i got the opportunity to visit the school and was very impressed with the way things were done. A lot of people say that The Seeing Eye is too formal, too strict, but in my opinion, training with a guide dog isn't something one should be relaxed about. My dog has been great so far, and I hope we'll continue to work well together.
As others have said, good and bad dogs can come from any school, and people can have great or terrible experiences at any school. The poster above me hated GDB; I know several people who loved their experiences there and got great dogs. Some people hate GEB; others would never consider going anywhere else. It's up to the applicant to do research. The opinions of current handlers can only count for so much. I've noticed that those of us who have had good experiences with our dogs/schools can give nothing but glowing reviews and love to criticize the other schools. I'm guilty of it myself at times. Giving a truly unbiased opinion is hard.:)
Hi, all! Holly, thanks for writing your story. No, it wasn't too long. Most people think GDB is awesome, and probably for some it is. But I've heard of other people going through multiple dogs in under one year because they weren't matched well.
I do know, as others have said here, that all schools have positive and negative points to them, and I have to go with my own choice. I was just curious to hear people's opinions of what those positive and negatives were that they'd experienced with the different schools.
Yes, I too find Seeing Eye to be too formal, and too strict. I guess strict isn't the right word. Obviously training with a dog takes a lot of discipline. However, I've found them formal to the point of being unfriendly when I've talked to them. Obviously I want a school that is high quality, but I'd also like one that is friendly to prospective students.
Anyway, if anyone has more ideas, keep them coming.
I went to high school with a girl who decided that she wanted a guide dog after seeing me with mine. Well, we were living in Nevada during my high school years. The girl chose a school from California. I think she chose one from california, because it was one of the closest schools to Nevada. Anyway, I can't remember exactly which school it was, that she attended, but she went through three dogs in the time span of about a year to a year and a half. The first dog, ended up having something wrong with his eyes, so she obviously wasn't able to use him anymore as a guide. The second dog, was just downright awful. She wouldn't stop for anything, she would run her out in the middle of roads (while cars were coming), and when she reported it to the school, they told her that the dog hadn't been completely trained, and that it was up to her to finish the training. That is so wrong. It is not our responsibility to train the dogs. It is, however, our responsibility to keep the dog's training up. But, like I said, they told her that the dog hadn't finished training, and that she'd have to do it herself. Well, of course, she didn't go for that, and she returned the dog. However, she chose to go back to the school a third time. If this had been me, I most certainly would not have gone back to that school. The third time, she did get lucky. Well, sort of lucky. She still has the same dog, but when we were in school, the dog did some things that it shouldn't have done. As far as the seeing Eye goes, I can't speak from personal experience, since I havent' been to the school, but I have known people who did attend that school, and a lot of the dogs that came from there were terrible. Of course, I have known people who didn't do what they were supposed to, so obviously this has an effect on the dog. But, other than seeing some things that shouldn't've been going on, I've also heard quite a few people complain about the school.
That sounds about like GDB. They kept telling me it was my job to teach my dog sidewalkless, and to teach him to stop for stairs. Always told me it was my job to teach him.
As for the seeing eye being unfriendly, I think they are very friendly. They treat you like a big family and so nice. Hubby recorded basically his whole month there and the instructors were so sweet and nice and always joking with the students. It was great. Also at GDB we never saw the instructors off route unless it was relieving time. After that they went to their office and didn't come back out until time to relieve again. At the seeing eye, they did something every night. Like the instructor would go to the common lounge and make milk shakes and just hangout with the students and get to know them better, play games, just interact. Not sure how other schools work in that way though. People that went to GDB like 10 years ago say that they used to do that as well. The instructors would eat with the students, and do things after hours with the students too. But, they don't do it anymore. That's also another reason I didn't like GDB because I really didn't get a chance to know the instructors other than a few of them were complete bitches.
I considered GEB before I went to GDB but GDB could get me in faster so i went with them.
Holly
Aw, the instructors were one of my favorite things about The Seeing Eye. Mealtimes were the best because we got the chance to eat with our instructors and ask questions that we were too tense or nervous to ask when we were on route. And! Milkshakes/peanut butter things were the best. I love love love the night instructors.
As for terrible dogs coming from The Seeing Eye, like I said, all schools have good and bad dogs. I got an amazing dog, and I know several others who got great dogs from The Seeing Eye. I know some who were mismatched, too, though, so. Take that for what it's worth.
Its important when talking with a perspective school to really know what you need. For example I need a dog who can do mostly sidewalkless work on both the left and right of the road, a dog who is a route traveler, and loves kids. It needs to move quickly and not require a lot of correcting. I have that in my dog Ellie. She is a sniffer so needs more corecting than I'd like, but her work is good. I had to do the majority of the right side training myself as that is barely covered in the training. They didn't know Ellie was coming with me until her training was almost done so didn't have a lot of time to do spicifics. But they did the best they coul nad I finished up at home. The school should ask about things environment, and how hard you want to be on your dog, but if they don't you need to know. My first dog was to hard for me. I could handle correcting him constantly physicically but emotionally it wore me out. so knowing about yourself and your needs and desires is so important.
When I was at Pilot, our instructors were always hanging out with us. That was one thing that I loved. Like others said, it gave us a chance to get to know everyone, including the instructors, better. We had a lot of fun. They ate all meals with us, and when the day was over, we'd all sit around and chat, play games, sometimes watch a movie, go out for icecream, etc. I think it's very important for instructors to do that sort of thing. It makes me feel like they really care about what they're doing, and that they're interested in the students.
I got my first dog from the Seeing Eye. It was an awesome experience, and Hillary worked with me, for about 8 years. She was a good worker, although, we did have some problems. The school was great about addressing issues that came up, and they always sent someone out, in a timely manner.
My second dog is from Guide dogs in California. I had an awesome experience there as well. I didn't have any problems with the instructors at all. They were very good at helping me to learn their methods, since I had to get used to doing things differently. My instructors were patient and offered many great suggestions.
The solo route was something I wasn't used to, but they did everything they could, to make me comfortable with the whole thing. Their follow-up is very good as well.
I had great experiences with both schools, and I would have a hard time, choosing one over the other. It really is a matter of personal preference.
Earle
I've heard some wonderful things about both the seing eye and GDB. I'm looking for someone from both schools to tell me there oppinions of them.
I went to GDB February of last year. I feel they did a wonderful job of matching me with the perfect dog for my personality and pace. I told them I wanted a bouncy, high-energy dog who loves to work and loves people. I also requested that he be good around other animals. Now, all I have to say is, be careful what you wish for! LOL. Flip, though very adaptable to any given situation, is full of energy and would work for me 'til he dropped dead from exhaustion. He's a very dominant dog, and though he likes to play tug, I don't usually like tugging with him because it encourages his dominant behavior. He is a very sweet, silly, goofy Labadorable puppy, though, and he's always making me laugh with his antics. I can't give him any fuzzy/fluffy things because he'll tear them to shreds. He loves to destroy my fluffy blankets and slippers. The only thing he can have right now is his Nylabone, which I'm rather surprised he hasn't completely destroyed yet. His Kong is also another toy he loves to chew on, but for some reason that I can't figure out, he hasn't destroyed that either, and I would have thought he'd have done it by now because it's rubber.
Anyway, sorry, this post has turned into more of a description about my dog than my experience at GDB. LOL. I went around the same time holly-bear did, and I guess you could say I had a totally different experience. I found most of the instructors to be very nice and helpful, and for the most part, I worked with the same instructor through the whole training. I also thought GDB was very friendly to perspective students, always answering all my questions, even when I felt like i was being a pest. Sue Sullivan has been there for forty years, I think, and she was the one I bugged the most. I seriously expected her to write back to me and tell me to stop inundating her with so many e-mails, and that they'd get back to me as soon as they knew of a class date. But she didn't. LOL. They have a new Admissions person there now (her name is Sherry Gomes), and she's totally blind and is a guide dog user herself. I really feel that hiring her is one of the best things they could have done because not only is she a guide dog user, but she can relate to all the applicants and even offer advice from a blind person's point of view about what you need to do before you get a dog, in terms of O&M training and things like that.
Besides giving me the greatest dog in the world, they had an uncanny way of matching people as roommates. I still talk to and keep in touch with my roommate. She and I have a lot in common and we received the two yellow lab brothers in the class. *GRIN*
If you want to research schools a little more, go to the GDUI web site
www.gdui.org
and click on the survey link. It's a survey that the thirteen guide dog schools in the US answered, and you can compare the different answers. Personally, I would never go to Pilot because they don't do traffic training with their dogs. And let me tell you, one of the most important, most amazing things to me about a guide dog is the intelligent disobedience they are taught. This means, you give them the command to go forward into the street, and they ignore it if there are cars roaring past in front of you. I know they are taught to judge traffic from several feet around them, but I'm not sure what that number is. Anyway, Pilot doesn't do this, and it would really worry me not to be able to fully trust and rely on my dog to get me out of a dangerous situation. Flip has done this on a few different occasions, and there's nothing like playing chicken with the cars to get your adrenaline going!
Sorry for being so long-winded. Hope this helps!
-- Allie and the lovable Flip
I agree with the above posts that say that not every match is a perfect one. However, The Seeing Eye paired me up with the most amazing little snot face in the world! Abbie and I have been a team since summer 2004 and she's changed my life completely. The Seeing Eye, as an organization, has also been an amazing influence on my life. Though some may say they're strict and too formal, it's that dignified manner that makes them the successful place that they are. I'll admit, i researched schools and was kind of a snob as to where i went. Seeing Eye is the oldest guide dog school in the world and upon further research, i found that, at least to my standards, they're the best. They're the only school that relinquishes full ownership of the dog to you and that was really important to me when i was deciding. I plan in goign back to them for all subsequent dogs.
hope that helps,
d
Ditto everything the last poster said. As I said, good and bad dogs come from every school. GDB and The Seeing Eye are two of the most reputable, I think. (Seriously, Pilot doesn't do traffic training with their dogs? Isn't that... I don't know, the *point* of a guide dog, to a certain extent? Jeez.)
As strict as The Seeing Eye might be in some respects, it's like a huge family. When my instructor came to do followup with me in September after I moved to Boston, she gave me a huge hug, and it was almost like being back at the eye again...
This topic is very interesting, and I hope more people will share their information/experiences here. *smile* Also, thanks very much for the information about the GDUI web site. I looked up the survey responses for my nearest school (the Texas one), which is actually in the same city I live in *smile*, and it sounds alright. If I ever seriously considered getting a guide dog, I'd prefer to go to that one just because I can/will be trained in the same city I (for now) will mainly be living at. But it would be interesting to compare their info with other schools, just to see how they are similar or different and to maybe give me some other choices.
Yeah, seriously. One of the reasons I got a dog in the first place was to help me with street crossings. I always had a tendency to veer a bit, and the dog helped straighten that out. But if he wasn't traffic trained, there's no way I'd cross the street with him. LOL.
I'd be more than happy to talk to anyone, who wants to know the differences between Guide Dogs and Seeing Eye.
As I've already stated, they are both awesome organizations.
On the subject of ownership, Guide dogs will give you full ownership after a year, if you request it. Durring that year, you need to have 2 home visits, but that's the only requirement.
Earle
I went to the Seeing Eye a year to get my first dog. I love him to pieces. I think they match dog with handler very well.
I liked that you got to get to know the instructors after your trips were over. I also like that if you are having any problem at all they will send someone if need be as soon as possible.
I would reccomend the seeing eye to anyone that is thinking about getting a guide dog.
I do think that if you are looking at a school to go to you should choose the one that would be best for you. Talk to the representatives from the different schools.
Are you serious about Pilot? All I can say about that, is that they must have seriously changed a great deal. I went there during the summer of 96, and at that time, traffic training was a definite must. I most certainly would not have gone to a school that didnt' do that. Back then, we definitely had that training. I think it's something that is very important, and like I said, at that time, they did too. My dog is so wonderful when it comes to that. Whenever I have to cross a street, he does a fantastic job of getting me across quickly, yet safely. Anyway, like I said, that school must have changed dramatically, because we definitely did traffic training back then.
The Seeing Eye is absolutely not the only school that gives ownership over to the handler. Guiding Eyes does so as does Fidelco Guide Dog Foundation. Someone mentioned wanting to go to the school right in their city just because they wanted to train in their home area. That is not a very good reason upon which to select a school, as schools like Fidelco do purely home based trainings and will train anywhere in the US. Also many of the larger schools have home training programs, and or provide very good follow-up services. I would highly reccomend Fidelco for anyone who is looking for a German Shepheard and a demanding and wonderful training experience. Fidelco teaches the fetch command, which no other school in the US does. The fetch command isn't for playing fetch in the back-yard. Rather, your guide dog will pick up something if you drop it and don't want to bend over and reach all over the floor looking for it. They can pick up papers, pens, books, coins, credit cards, articles of clothing and even relatively heavy things like backpacks and toat bags. Also Fidelco is one of the few schools that continues to teach the command, "Find a seat." Most schools have stopped using this command because their dogs get confused, not understanding the difference between clearing chairs as obsticles while working and finding one and intentionally leading their handler to it. Because most schools use primarily if not exclusively labs they have stopped teaching the very helpful fetch command. This is another reason I love German Shepheards. In general, as a breed they tend to be less food-driven then labs and goldens. Oh, and someone stated above that they don't blame the schools for poor guide dog handeling. Well, I do. If a school is any good then it screens it's potential students very carefully and won't give a guide dog to just anyone. And a good school, failing to screen someone and ketch a problem the first time around will ketch it in training or in follow ups. I don't give much credit to schools who will give a dog to a man in his eighties that might only use the dog once a week, or a school that would give a dog to someone who has never had any pets before and fails several times during training to propperly feed, groom and pick up after their dog, such basic tasks. I can't tell you how many people I have seen that should have never been given dogs in the first place. So, yes, I do judge a school by the handler, guide dog teams I see them putting out.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a process you have to go through with GEB to get ownership of the dog?
I really wish that fetch was still taught at other schools. My understanding was that too many dogs were being dropped from various programs because they couldn't master the fetch command propperly, and also, it was too time-consuming for the instructors, and that they wanted to increase the traffic training with the dogs, so fetch was the thing to get dropped. (That was what I was told at The Seeing Eye, anyway.)
I agree, to a point, that schools should be blamed for producing handlers. That is to say, I don't think guide dogs should be handed out to any old blind Joe Shmo on the street. Working with these animals is a privilege, not a right. On the other hands, sometimes, it's the dog, not the handler. I think breeding programs need to be very carefully monitored. If puppies who consistenetly don't meet the standards for guidework keep coming from a particular parent, then, duh, stop breeding that particular dog.
Exactly. The breeding programs at a lot of the schools have really gone down hill. At Guiding Eyes especially there has been a trend of labs, yellows especially that have softer smoother coates, better AKC show dog confirmation and uncontrolable, hyper, stubborn, at times mental personalities. If the focus is too much on appearance then personality and health are compermised. With Guiding Eyes you have a one year period before you can own the dog, but with Fidelco you can own the dog out-right. Most if not all schools now have some way that you can own your dog. Oh, and something else to mention. This might come as a bit of a surprise and even a shock to most of you, especially if you haven't been really involved in the world of dog training in general, but all guide dog schools, including Seeing Eye and Fidelco, my two favorites used to use exclusively compolsory training. This means that the dogs were taught to work to avoid pain, rather then to obtain praise or food rewards. I never knew that until I got a trainer to start really talking to me in detail about guide dog training methods. For example, the way that the fetch command used to be taught was by pinching the dog's ear. When the dog would start to go and pick up the object the pressure would be released. When teaching the dogs to pull out into the harness, dogs used to be given constant forward leash snap corrections until they began to move. This is just apalling to me, but fortunately things are really starting to change. At Fidelco and Seeing Eye espessially. Food treats, positive re-enforcement and a lot of verble praise are now being used as the main tools in training at these two schools. One last thing, to my knolege Fidelco is the only school that teaches the "Go lay down" and targetting commands. Targetting is a behavior where if you make a fist and say your dog's name in an excited tone of voice, they will come to you from a foot away or from hundreds of yards away and touch your hfist with their nose. It teaches them that when you call them they can't just run up to you and turn back around and run off again. They have to make physical contact and then wait for a further command. It is also especially helpful for a blind handler who can't always know where exactly the dog is or reach out and grab the collar of their passing dog as it walks by. The "Go lay down." command is rather complex. It tells the dog to stop whatever it happens to be doing, to go to their fleese pad, to lay down on it, and to stay there until they are given a release command. It replaces having to call the dog to you, heal it over to it's sleeping mat, telling it "down" and then telling it "stay" You can even be in the livingroom, for example, and your dog will be in the kitchen. you can call out to it "Juno, go lay down." The dog will leave the kitchen and go to it's bed, even if it happens to be in the bedroom, a room in which neither you or the dog was when the command was given. If you really want to know the differences between schools you need to call them up and get a trainer to go into detail with you about their training philosophy and their training techniques and methods. The more informed you are the better you can grill them and the more they will respect you as a perspective guide dog handler.
I had no idea that the schools didn't use positive training methods from the start. Interesting.
The Seeing Eye has the "go to your place" command, which sounds exactly the same as the "go lay down" command. The dogs aren't required to lay down, but are required to sit and rest at their designated "place" (a mat, their bed, their crate, whatever you set up as their place). They stay there until you give them a release command. (Ideally, that is. Chances are that they'll get up of their own acord after a few minutes and follow you around, but it works especially well if someone comes to the door and you don't want the dog to greet the person until you say so, or other similar situations.)
Manda, that's totally awsum. It doesn't surprise me either. Of all of the other schools out there Seeing Eye would seem the most likely to be inovaitive enough to teach that particular command.
That is appalling that the schools ever used negative training like pain, and that some sound like they still do. Unbelievable! I would not go to a school that did that!
I have talked to several schools, and it does indeed seem to be ttrue that Pilot no longer does traffic training with their dogs. This is about the most bizzarre thing I have ever heard, but I guess it's their call. However, why anyone would want to go to a school that doesn't do traffic training is completely beyond me.
Thanks for the heads-up about training methods for the dogs. I'll be sure to inquire about that as I research schools.
Most aren't using such harsh methods anymore, but it was just a matter of years ago that most of them were.
As far as I know, most of the "reputable" or more well-known schools have entirely switched to positive training methods. GDB and GEB use food rewards (bit too heavily in my opinion...) as well as praise, The Seeing Eye uses verbal and physical praise, and starting this year, all dogs in training will be exposed to the clicker, another positive training method.
As far as traffic training, like I said before, why, in the name of all that's holy, would you cut *that* from the training program? Dropping the fetch command, sure, I get that. Easing up on find/follow, fine, whatever. But *traffic*? The reason most blind people get guide dogs? Sure, that makes total sense. Oy.
And not like I'm bragging about the school I graduated from (har har, why would I do that?), The Seeing Eye recently acquired a hybrid car, so now all dogs and students in the program will be exposed to that quieter car, which is becoming much more common on the roads today.
Now, that would make a lot of sense. I've been hit twice by those damn things, and once it was with my dog. The wind was whipping snow in her face and the car skidded on the ice. Bad combination. Neither of us heard it coming.
I absolutely cannot believe that Pilot stopped doing the traffic training! How appalling is that! That is so ridiculous. I'm baffled. Well, I can certainly say that I don't think I'll be paying another visit to Pilot. It's such a shame, too, because I had such a wonderful and fulfilling experience there. If they decide not to bring back the traffic training, then there's no way that I could even think about going back. We all know that traffic trainging is a definite must, and I can't imagine going to a school that doesn't incorporate that into their training.
what is the cliking thing that there using? and yes I am thinking about gdf and seeing eye in nj. that to all keep the answers coming I like learning about school for dogs and yes I am going to wait on getting a dog.
Clicker training is a positive training technique. Basically, you make the dog understand that when it hears the clicking sound of the clicker, it's pretty much the best thing on the planet. (At first, you supplement the clicking with small treats.) You can use clicker training to work on find commands (Juno, find the chair/counter/whatever.") When Juno finds the desired object, click and praise like your dog just found the cure for cancer. Repeat this process. Eventually, the clicking is dropped, and the praise is enough, and Juno will forever find you that counter in the grocery store.
This is a very very rough idea of what clicker training is. If you're really interested, talk to someone at your school if you have a guide dog already, or ask the schools you're interested in if you're considering getting a dog.
In response to Post 27, thanks. I was thinking more of having my lessons at my home city because to me it would make the most sense in what I was learning. It wasn't really so much just because I felt like it, but more because I could maybe be learning specific routes that I would be using. For instance, I went to Austin and when mobility was taught, of course, it was taught over there. Most concepts I knew because I had had mobility at home, but I did learn how to get to certain places on my own in Austin. But in that point, it didn't help for when I went home because the bus system and layout is of course a little different than there, so to me it's hard to use what I learned here because although I got exposure to busy streets, taking a bus on my own, and calling for information, I don't know where most bus stops are here and therefore how I would get to most places using it. But anyways, yeah I just figured it would make more sense in learning, to me anyway. *smile* But if other schools can train, at least partially in my home area then that is cool, and I will look up about other school too then. *smile* I actually know I'm not ready to get a guide dog as of now, just because I don't go many places yet anyway, and when I do, it's with paratransit which takes you to the door. (I know, I need to get out more. But that's how things are at the moment.) But some time in the future when I have my own house I might consider getting one, so I'll keep learning about the schools. All this info is pretty cool , and I'm glad someone had started a discussion like this. OK, I'm done here. *smile*
This just occured to me. For those of you who are interested in getting a guide and who are curious about the training experiences provided by different schools, try reading this blog I kept while at The Seeing Eye. It's pretty detailed, so will give you a good idea of how training works at that particular school. There are also similar blogs for other schools. Try doing google searches.
Hope this helps at least one of you.
Compulsory training isn't a bad thing if done right. What do you think you're doing when you leash correct the hell out of your dog? Or maybe Fidelco doesn't teach that. Speaking of which, Fidelco doesn't have a very good reputation, either, so I wouldn't go there. All they produce is shepherds, and their shepherds tend to be high hprey-driven dogs, which is not what I want in my guide.
GDB uses food rewards in conjunction with clicker training these days. It's ultimately the handler's choice if they want to use food rewards or not. I don't use them often, but let me tell you ... my dog is a lab, and any food reward is going to make him learn whatever I want him to faster than if I didn't give him the food. And by food, I mean one kibble at a time. LOL. I don't give him human food or anything like that. Any food, as far as a lab is concerned, is good stuff.
Hi,
I have recently applied to Guide Dogs For The Blind, and i have my home interview coming up in a couple of days. I chose GDB after doing thorough research in to all of the various guide dog schools around the country. I talked with graduates and staff from every school, and then i narrowed it down from there. I finally made my decision last summer when I attended the ACB Convention because i got to meet with instructors and graduates from all the schools first hand. I was able to actually work with a guide dog thanks to GDB, and I went with them because they fit my needs best. It's really a personal preference, and you have to just figure out what makes you comfortable. My advice is just to be thorough, and make sure you gain as many perspectives as you possibly can.
Thanks.
Kolby
Hello,
I went to Guide Dog Foundation in New York in September of 2005. I got a lab/poodle cross, who has worked out extremely extremely well for me--so well in fact that on his off days I am really frustrated because they are so few and far between.
I liked the small class size, and the fact that they use the find commands very very very extensively--as well as follow. Both commands are extremely helpful on the college campus.
Also, I like that they use leash guiding and are the only school in the USA at this time to do this. It is as it sounds; guiding with the leash...
Hope this helps some. Further questions ask. Sorry for mistakes but am writing in a hurry.
Hello, more thoughts...
Someone above said giving a truly unbiased opinion is ahrd and this is true, however I have done it before and can do it again.
First off, GDF isn't right for everyone. Especially depending on the instructor and "x" person's personality... <grin>
Certain instructors are really really tough about certain things: like makign the dog sit at every door... Other instructors knew we would not keep this up at home and in fact we were not told we had too, it was a leader thing at school from us to the dogs.
I know a lot of people were frustrated with the way the instructors wanted us to wait before we did "x"--say grooming our dogs if we were not retrains ETC--but this didn't bother me.
Others didn't like that we had to each do obedience at random times while waiting to board the bus. I had only to do it once and though it was not terribly exciting it was alright.
I would return, and in fact do plan too in the way off future--at least I hope it's way off.
Like I say more questions--more negativity needed for some reason <grin>, ask.
Shanda
hello, I should've just waited til I finsished all of these.
GDF does the ownership thing too before you leave class...
Also, we always ate meals with instructos and the CEO a few times as well--which he was not as scary <grin> as I thoguth he might be.
But as so many of you ahve said, not everyone has great experiences withe very school. That goes for GDF, Seeing Eye, any of them. SOme of my GDF classmates where none too happy with their dogs, others were... So yeah. Same thing with people from Pilot, GDB, any of them.
Okay done now...
Shanda
I've researched schools and training extensively. There isn't a school out there that doesn't use some form of positive reinforcement. Some use treats, some use the clicker and treats, nad some use verbal praise. I don't know of a school that doesn't recomend the ocational leash correction. They all have somewhat different thoughts and when to givethem and what type and such. Some of the differences are quite minor some aren't. I went to a school that used corrections pretty frequently and verbal praise. When I returned home I switched from verbal to treats although of course I still praise and don't use treats all the time. I also cut way back on my corections. While I'd rather not correct my dog, there are times when its neccessary we've we've reworked a poll she's run me in to twice and she hits it again on the third try a quick pop is order. The leash corrections if done right aren't painful. Another thing just because a school doesn't teach a certain comand certinly doesn't mean it can't be taught. Southeastern doesn't have a go to your place comand but I taught Ellie to do when we got home. I also taught her to target "touch" my hand. I recently taught her to steop behind me for those occations when we can't switch when going through a door and I taught her to heel on my right side. I'm certainly not super handler trainer grin, but I enjoy it, so I do it. And Pilot does traffic training with there dogs you just don't cover it in class with planned traffic checks. Though I'd imagine living in Columbus you'd get natural ones. Shelly
Hi again!
I had my home interview with GDB and everything went really well. I loved my interviewer because she answered my many questions both honestly and very thoroughly, and she made the entire process less stressful and actually quite fun. I was very nervous, but she just told me to relax and to be myself, which is what I did.
I just got the wonderful news of my acceptance in to the July class at the San Rafael campus (July 01-28 2007) and I can't wait! I also discovered that I will actually receive my dog on July the 4th, now how's that for getting my independence on Independence Day? *Smiles!*
I have a blog that I update almost daily, and of course I will document every little detail of my training there as well. Just go to:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kolbygarrison
I hope this helps.
Kolby
Congratulations! I will most likely be going on the 6th of May.
I am going to GDB oct 21st or nov 18th the oregon campus lets go GDB
Yeyeyeyeyeyeh! *smile*
I am actually going to GEB nov 12th that is for sure smiles
about clicker training, while I was in training with steven at Guide Dogs for the Blind, there was a clicker workshop. All of us were shown how to use the clicker, and we even got to keep the one they gave us.